What was your initial exposure to succession planning and how has it impacted you?

Post-pandemic, there's just been more movement than there's ever been before, and it's just been more of a pain point where a lot of folks are just getting blindsided. Half of us are in interim roles and wearing seven hats instead of six. Some healthcare organizations are better at succession planning and take it more seriously than others.

I think I've always had at least a moderate level of succession planning – prioritization and at least an informal structure in place. But I would say post-pandemic, those informal processes have completely broken down, right? Because there has been so much movement. Even two of my own potential successors are gone now. They're gone for good reasons – they were great people. They were the right people to be my successors, but someone else saw how good they were and recruited them. They're promoted into bigger jobs and they're doing great. I'm thrilled for them.

Now the bench isn't quite as deep. Part of succession planning is to be deliberate in your thought process, then work to skill up the selected person, in this case maybe more quickly than I would otherwise. My whole career, that level of commitment to succession planning as an organization has been lacking. Maybe I've just not been lucky enough to be in a place that's done that. We've really struggled here with HR, who is barely keeping the lights on, much less doing the “graduate level” work of fostering the mentoring and growth process.

So I do it informally. I've had some conversations with a person that I see has immediate potential of being my successor. In our one-on-ones, we occasionally have a different kind of conversation. I've been very clear with him that I see him as somebody that could step up in a pinch. I identify opportunities to give him some additional experiences.

The further someone is from immediately being ready, the more I feel like “gosh, I wish we had a formalized program and a training, or a menu of actions that they could take to be mentored.” I would get to share mentoring responsibilities, and they get to shadow a different individual or gain other experience. Maybe it's a pipe dream to have that level of robustness. In other industries there's more formality to it, but in the healthcare industry, it seems really weak in comparison.

You had mentioned having meetings and identifying folks for succession planning as you have moved into new roles. Were there discussions generally during annual evaluations and when did you conduct this “gap analysis” comparing where their skills are today versus where they need to be?

I certainly have always tried to use the annual evaluation time. When we're setting goals for the coming year, you'll use that as a clear obvious opportunity to talk about “what are the experiences we need to get you?” That's certainly a key moment to do some of that work, but then I think it's backed up and reinforced in regular one-on-one meetings. Those are probably the two primary touch points I would say. It can't be the once-a-year annual eval only. I mean that's not typically enough, especially if you're in this mode where you must accelerate grooming someone.

I'm not looking to leave anytime soon. That that's the other challenging part of succession planning for me. One selected successor, who left for a CEO job, was ready faster than I was leaving. She wasn't necessarily looking for a job, but the jobs kept coming looking for her and finally it just kind of reached the point where it made sense for her. I get it and support her, but that's the other challenge: when you've got someone ready, but you are not.

I wish there were a “pharmacist's brain” resource, in which there was more linearity to it and not so many tangential considerations. It's not a perfect structure system. There is a natural balance between organically developing versus something more structured. We've looked at a couple of institutions that have it at their HR level and some of that stuff. I love the idea of a best practices guide and how you could account for all these things and formalize it, and you put it up as a chart on your wall.

There is a downside to succession planning too. Because you don't want to deselect other people and send a negative message to those that aren't being mentored in that regard. So that's a question, too. I like to think I've got pretty strong people on my team, and they feel good about their jobs and their role within the organization. I value them and I think there's a sensitivity to this. You definitely want to be cautious. How do you manage that in a more formal program?

Are there any tools or resources, you have seen that have inspired your succession planning?

You know, many, many years ago, I remember that there was a book, but it's been a long time since I've seen anything kind of come across my desk that I would say “wow, this is really helpful and enlightening.” If you two come across some resources that you think are particularly good, that would be great to share them because I just haven't seen anything for quite some time.

Speaking of putting together a resource, what could we put together that would be used? We’d be curious to hear your perspective on what your newer managers or recent senior leaders may find useful to look forward.

A webinar and a template for me to use for my own organizational thought process. A template that prompts thinking and speaks to best practices. It could cover topics like “what's a mentoring plan and at what pace should you proceed,” or “how do you manage conflicts that arise?” Maybe it includes a list or resources and readings to review. Everybody conjures up a slightly different thought process on succession planning. So, getting that alignment on philosophical approaches and putting it on paper could be a tangible, helpful tool.

The other consideration is there are maybe some generational differences going on too. I mean you two are younger than me, and I probably grew up in a little bit of the old school world, right? There were only a couple of combined residency programs with master’s at the time I completed one, and now they have proliferated. I believe they might be overselling what the degree buys. I’ll have students graduating, and I hear a lot of them say “I want your job in the next three years.” And here I’m thinking “well how about in the next 30 years?”

Maybe my thinking of “you have got to earn your experiential level is too old school.” Especially given the leadership crisis that is coming with people not coming into the professions. How do I think about accelerating somebody who probably does have the right skill, the right leadership attributes, but needs more experience? More experience running hospital operations, interfacing with faculty, chairs, and division chiefs. Maybe we need a more current checklist of “what do we need to make sure that we're doing so that you don't have to take 30 years” and I need to get over the fact that it took me 30 years.

There’s probably some middle ground between three and 30 years

Exactly.

I know we’re nearing time. Any parting advice for current leaders in terms of succession planning?

Well I've always said to young people, fellows and residents is, if you're aspiring for a leadership career outside of your discipline, enjoy your current job and prove yourself in it. Even if you have career aspirations to go beyond it. It’s stunning to me how many people express their dislike of their current role because they really want to be in the job above. The likelihood of you getting the attention you need to get that promotion is really based on current performance and track record, and enthusiasm. 

Interview conducted by Ganesh Chandran & Connor Hanson